I have posted something similar Sarah. This term anti-vaxxer has been used to spread hate, has been used to cause division. If people genuinely want to love and connect with those who have a different opinion, then please don't use this term!
I think if you decide to stand in the box where you don't trust vaccinations, then you are, by very definition, anti-vaccine. To other people who are also anti-vaccine, that isn't a derogatory term, they see it as a badge of pride.. so really it's all about where you're standing.
I think Amanda's response was VERY spot-on and just broke down the uncomfortable truth that there are seriously-heavy-topics people are digging their heels in on all sides of the spectrum these days, not just about vaccines, and how to navigate keeping a loving relationship with a family member or friend by acknowledging exactly what you said - how we all are FEELING (rather than beliefs about a thing).
Perhaps try reading it again, but this time with an open heart, because she acknowledged that everyone is having feelings about all the things and to actually focus on that to bridge conversation.
I like the phrase “vaccine hesitant” to describe those who have misgivings about the vaccines. It acknowledges their beliefs without being judgemental. I’ve used it a few times with folks who were not vaccinated; instead of creating negativity and division, it enabled me to open up the conversation and ask questions. As a result of such conversations, at least one person close to me who was vaccine hesitant has now been vaccinated.
I’m so sorry. I hate what my culture has done to yours. One of the things I can’t forgive in my anti-vaxxer mom is how delusional she has been about the impact of COVID on First Nations.
I could never understand what you are going through. You have every right to be angry. Your feelings are just as valid as those around you. I firmly believe that hatred is something that should be let go. We find it hard to love those who hurt us. And that is the natural response. It is our survival instincts that make us feel this way.
If you cannot find it in yourself to love, find it in yourself to forgive. I could never love my abuser. But I did forgive him. I didn’t do it because he deserved forgiveness. I did it because I deserved to live without the hatred in my heart always weighing me down. You deserve to be happy.
I live down the road from the Alabama-Coushata Tribe. I stop at the gas station all the time. They have posted everywhere that masks are required even at gas pumps. I get so so angry when people disrespect their signs and don’t wear a mask. I’m so sorry your people are still being disrespected. I could ever understand how that feels. You are an incredibly strong person.
i’m glad the post made you cry, because that means it made you feel. what is happening with this pandemic is deeply unfair. it a pandemic of the poorer among us, the indigenous among us, the lesser educated. it is fucked. it is making clearer the previous horrors; the system is not working. i know. people are not listening and indigenous people (here in new zealand as well) are carrying an extra load.
i wish i could hug you.
you said I find it incredibly hard to be compassionate and empathetic…”
i do, too. it really is incredibly hard. there are times i want to throttle people. there are times i want to scream. there are times i want to shut off. there are times i want to just walk away and let it burn. it is incredibly hard to keep feeling compassion for someone especially when they are hurting your family, or lighting fire to your town. it is so, so hard.
it is because it is hard that we must do it anyway. being able to have (boundaried, strong) compassion for all those around us - especially the difficult ones - is a master-level move in this life.
the more incredibly hard it is to do, the more rewarding (for both sides) it is when it happens.
it takes a bit of a leap of faith.
i believe in you.
you can love someone that is killing you because you can love anyone you want.
This is a little bit of a tangent, but since you brought up the "<XX> isn't punk rock" thing, it has always struck me that trying to tell others what is or isn't punk is the most "un-punk" thing of all. (And yes, I realize the irony in my statement)
I'm very much with Trapped. One moment, I want to kiss a stranger, the next I want to never leave the flat again. Love & patience & strength & joy to all of you!
just remember how totally normal it is. i've been the same for the past few years, just feeling like a manic animal in a cage, with my brain pin-balling in every direction every 60 seconds. it is what it is. acceptance is hard in coming but when it does, fuck, it's a real relief.
Yes, but. Sorry I have a but: I feel like the really hard part is that even if you accept, oh okay, we have a new virus and need to be careful until we figure out how to deal with it, fine ... after a few months comes the realization, oh, it's not as simple as we may have thought, but they're already developing vaccines, so we need to hold out just a few more months, fine ... then it's yay, I can get vaxxed soon, but we first need to let all the more vulnerable people get theirs, fine ... yay, I got my first jab, I feel such relief, maybe now the end is finally in sight ... oh what's that, not enough people get theirs, and now some people start protesting in the streets, converging from all over the country and probably spreading the Covid amongst themselves, carrying it back home to wherever they're from ... well, fuck me, this thing lasts and lasts and lasts - we could have ended it if all countries had gone for a short, hard lockdown, and then again if all countries had vax rates high enough for herd immunity, but as it stands, this shit is gonna stick with us for how much longer .... and that's where acceptance and patience has been worn thin for me. I know there's nothing else to do but keep on being careful, wary, patient. But boy, it hasn't gotten easier, it has gotten exhausting.
Alas acceptance never gets any easier. I wish I could lie and say that it does…but as a rule it’s always utterly, utterly exhausting, confusing and numbing. Everything feeling worn thin and barely functional. Whilst the meat computer (my therapist’s term for my fibro brain) grapples with the fluctuating incoming sensory data.
One of the things we have going for us in these covid times is that this is one of those very rare occasions when we have a global shared reality. Thankfully Empathy is a powerful thing, and we at least have the means by which to convey some of that empathy.
This made me think of my new favorite saying that I heard this week: And the science goes on. I agree, the constant changing is exhausting. I'm also thankful that as the information has accumulated and new things have come along, there have been people who would make changes. Making changes can be tough...even if we feel like it's repeated whiplash. I keep trying to remind myself it's evidence of us learning more about what we are dealing with (no commentary on why that might be).
It is exhausting! Right down to the bones. So, I think we need acceptance in a larger sense -- beyond the current twists and turns of the virus, and encompassing all the unknowns. It's not easy but it makes me feel less insane.
I miss karaoke. I miss jam nights. I miss airplane rides to other places.
Because of chronic illness and such, I'm not going to bars or nightclubs or restaurants or going be in an airplane, even with a mask and a booster, for probably years.
The idea of Zoom karaoke sounds intriguing. No one has ever thought of inviting me to do Zoom anything, so maybe I should break my pessimistic loner introvert habits (which prepared me for this pandemic really well tbh) and ask, anyone want to do Zoom karaoke sometime?
I'm accepting that in order to have certain services in my life that I need, I have to adjust to "I will sometimes spend time in enclosed but ventilated spaces, with masks, with LFTs taken, with people who are out and about more than I am."
The proviso currently is that they're vaccinated as heavily as I am, but I recognise that the system will likely soon titrate vaccine availability to just people like me who are clinically extremely vulnerable. I'll still have layers of protection, but fewer layers, and there's a limit to the normality I can expect other people to refuse when both local and national governments are easing restrictions (however political, rather than scientific, those decisions may be). (All the same, I wish they would refuse a bit more of it. It's the loss of consensus on reality and what it means that I miss most deeply, I think.)
Anyway, I would SO be up for Zoom karaoke, though I have never done karaoke before and do not guarantee the quality of what comes out of my mouth! Are there sites where people can just sign up for this and send a bunch of invites out? I've been doing Zoom art/crafts groups a lot with autistic peer-run things and it's been great.
Yes, please. Chronic Pain Survivor, here. I want to maintain some level of "zoominess" as things go forward. I have appreciated not driving so much. Can do it, and need to rest afterwards.
I put a big job change on hold at the beginning of the pandemic to help my company and coworkers through it. Now I am utterly exhausted. It's time to leave. It's time to rest and regain strength so in time I can get to the things that have been waiting.
"Emotional truth" and validating core emotions - this is so helpful and I wish I had understood this better when I was raising my children and married to an emotionally violent man. This applies to so many situations and for me, now, will help in communicating with my dearly loved nearly 92 y/o father, who has dementia. Thank you for this.
you're so welcome. it's a really liberating thing to understand. and you can ALWAYS find that core emotion to latch onto - it's in there SOMEWHERE - even if there rest is a ball of anger, narcissism, abuse, whatever, getting in the way.
My dad doesn't have dementia, but this is the whole thing I've been trying to do for a year since my mom (his partner of 60 years) died suddenly. Just trying to listen to what he is feeling but isn't saying. When he is complaining about the basketball refs or the football game or whatever I just try to listen to the pain or frustration or sadness he is finding a way to express. It helps a lot. It's so strange how our relationship changed overnight and I'm still finding my footing in it.
Thank you! I needed the reminder to rest and heal. Expansion points are my new focus. I need them. I am cracking and snapping. It is completely unsustainable. I feel broken in so many ways. I am failing as a parent but trying rally back into it as my kids deserve more than I am giving. Expansion points will allow me the grace I need. THANK YOU!!
YOU ARE WELCOME. nothing heals without time, patience, slowing-downing. it's so frustrating to accept, but there's no other goddamn way. the seed needs dark soil and slow time, dark soil and slow time. you can't just pry that shit open.
Perhaps it might help to remember the vaccine scientist who said “we are building the plane as we lift off”? To me that seems very dangerous, and I would rather my child was on a plane that was properly built and tested prior to their flight. I think that’s reasonable, yet so many people think it’s not. This troubles me greatly. We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine, we cannot. It’s fine for adults to make their own choices according to need of course.
I appreciate that. I think that when it comes to looking at the cost/benefit of saving lives, a little risk is worth the price. Science has always worked like this. We put a lot of medicines in our modies that have been proven in study after study to work 99% of the time. That means there may be a 1% of the time these medecines don't work, or may have adverse effects. But we decide to take the risk. Right now, with 900,000 dead and counting in the states, I'd rather get on the plane with the mitigated risk. It's a good metaphor, isn't it. Every time you get on a LITERAL plane, you're also taking a calculated risk. Is it 100% certain that your plane isn't gonna crash? Nope. You might crash. Planes are not guaranteed to work. But, statistically, you're pretty safe.
And running with this metaphor, I also don't see the logic coming from folks who will not take a jab in the arm, but will gladly get on a airplane to fly somewhere. To me: it's the same kind of trust fall (excuse the word choice).
When you get on a plane: do you know how it works? Do you understand exactly how that plane was built, and how the physics of it function? Or ... do you take a trust fall and assume that the airline, the pilot, and the government have pretty much done their jobs to make sure that everybody on that plane is pretty safe? I'd say the latter. I wonder what the difference is.
Thanks for your reply. I still need to remind myself of the physics each time I fly! However, I don't fly that much since cutting down my carbon footprint.
It's a long read but if you truly wish to understand the vaccine hesitant then I highly recommend Needle Points by Norman Doige, it is fully referenced and absolutely fascinating.Norman Doige is pro-vaccination and vaccinated himself. I hope this piece will open up the debate, bring in some actual science and real world data and bridge the divides that are having such devastating effects on families, communities and nations. The section on younger people is really worth a read for anyone who has a child.
She censors every comment from people who have a background in science and are anti-vaccine. Almost every one. She deleted the comments I just made. Check out my substack. Amanda Palmer is a really, really bad person. If you look at my substack you'll understand why.
Thank you for bringing this perspective, Julia. It ensures this community is representative and not an echo chamber. When I think of the expression about building the plane as we lift off I dont think of one modern plane that isnt finished. I think of the Wright Brother's plane that was just wings with no seat or even a cabin to keep the pilot from falling out. I'd never get in one. And very few people did. But I'm glad someone did. And that those who believed in flight kept working to make planes better and accessible to more people despite the failures, injuries and deaths. I think of open cockpit planes from WWI. I'd still never get in one (especially for their intended task) but I am SO glad that many brave souls did. And still more people dedicated their lives to making flight more accessible to more people. The evolution of planes would not have happened if children did not witness the risks and benefits of flight and decide to learn physics and invest in the future of flight. Your child is smart. your child is observant. What you instruct your child to do and what you expose them to is unique to your life and I am not here to tell you you are wrong. What I hope also happens is that your child is also given the benefit of growing with well rounded (difficult) lessons, not just actions.
"I am the mom and I say we are not getting on this plane because it is not safe"
-- Why isn't it safe?
"Because look at it. it has no seats, belts, doors or walls to keep us falling out"
--OH. Well why is everybody else getting on the plane? don't they know it's unsafe?
This is where the difficult lesson comes in. Because one day your child wont be a child. they will be an adult. suddenly it will be fine for them to make their own choice. The catch is, their decision making about getting on planes will be largely informed by that time we didn't get on the plane with no doors even though we saw a lot of other people doing it.
I fully understand that not everyone wants to be part of the experiment. But everyone should be given the tools to understand the importance of the experiment and the inherent neutrality of science. Facts and data and graphs are neither good nor bad. It is only how the facts and data and graphs are wielded that cause us to interpret them as good or bad.
Thanks for this, I appreciate your comments and welcoming of my differing perspective. You are right we are the experiment. And as you know if you have some understanding of science, every good experiment need a control group. If everyone takes the vaccine we have no control group, then we have no way of knowing it's effectiveness or not. I wish the best to you and your family too.
Julia, if you look at the links that I have linked to and my sub stack articles, you'll find great videos concerning micro technology, put out by La Quinta Columna. You will also find links to brave people in New Zealand who have been fighting to inform others of micro technology and the Pfizer vials in New Zealand as well. there's a reason Amanda went out of her way to stick her neck out for Chrissy Teigen, and keeps ignoring me, and has never shared any of my work. Because they're all part of the same club that makes money off our suffering.
I think the "building the plane as we lift off" metaphor is missing some context.
In ordinary circumstances, you can just decide not to fly on airplanes, and that's ok. Nothing really terrible is going to happen if you decide not to fly on an airplane.
But if, say, you're on an island with an erupting volcano and the lava is pouring down the slopes and people are dying in large numbers, and if the only way to escape is to get on this plane we just finished building, that's a different story.
great point, identifying the 'business as usual' baseline is key, this issue comes up in climate change conversations too, incidentally.
on a similar note, this is not the first time we have developed a vaccine even though this one is new. we know a lot about vaccines. a closer analogy might be we're in a plane that's trying a slightly new navigation system.
it seems relevant to find out whether a person is concerned about the whole idea of vaccines in general, or just this vaccine, because it would change the conversation. similarly, do they think covid is real or not, for example, would they accept lockdown in lieu of getting a vaccine to protect others, recognizing there is a pandemic--if not, it would change the conversation, depending whether there is more or less common ground.
Hi Henry, thanks for your respectful comment. I feel for your neighbour. I understand your own concern. I'm not antivax. I feel it is an important tool in our battle against covid-19. Many people should have it. I feel it would be better to prioritise those who have pre existing illness that predisposes them to get covid-19 badly, those with conditions like diabetes, heart disease and stroke. Then there might be more vaccine left for people in other less affluent countries who would also greatly benefit. Mine is a nuanced position that takes a long essay to to explain. Thankfully Norman Doige has done a good job. See here if you are interested in bridging the divide and learning from beyond the echo chamber https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-one
Thank you for this essay. It is perhaps the most thoughtful essay about Covid vaccines that I have ever read, and it makes a far stronger case for vaccine hesitancy than the usual fare I hear from my relatives (who, for instance, have claimed that Bill Gates aims to murder 90% of the human race, etc. etc.).
Considering the evidence from this essay, I feel I must switch my position on mandates. The covid vaccines should not be mandated. Likewise doctors should be allowed to share their honest opinions of the vaccines (and also lockdowns etc.) without fear of being fired for it, except perhaps in really extreme cases. The censorship imposed by Big Tech is also troubling and ought to be greatly reduced if not eliminated. The FDA should be reformed so it no longer takes money from drug companies, and we need to do something about "salary bribes", which is what I call it when a government official goes easy on industry in return for a cushy position in that same industry once the official resigns from government work. We also need a thorough investigation into the lab-leak hypothesis, gain-of-fucntion research etc.. (Matt Ridley had already convinced me of that one. https://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/suppressing-the-lab-leak-theory/ )
With all that out of the way, though, there remains the question of whether or not you should get vaccinated. Of course I don't know your individual case, your medical history, the prevalence of Covid where you live, etc., but I'd like to share a few thoughts.
The essay says that "while the vaccines don’t always stop the spread, they do protect the vaccinated from getting severe disease and death for a number of months". I think protection from severe disease and death is a very nice thing to have, even if it's temporary. And while it's true that the initial studies were too small to detect deaths (running at 30,000 people per study), later studies were much larger. See for instance this study, which looked at medical records from 1.2 million people (600,000 vaccinated people and 600,000 unvaccinated people) in Israel: https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/24/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-real-world-israel-study/
You mentioned a concern about long-term side effects, saying "We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine, we cannot."
It's true that these vaccines have only been available for about a year. But in the absence of longer-term data, we have to make an educated guess about the long-term risks, and I would argue that those risks are very small.
Vaccines are not taken daily like some other medicines, so there's no chance of the medicine slowly building up over time. Vaccines as a rule are only injected a few times, and they're designed to be eliminated by the body. Eliminating the vaccine is how the body learns to fight the actual disease, after all.
Even this essay, for all its valid skepticism of official narratives, can't find a single example of a vaccine side-effects that waited a year to emerge. The closest example is here: "Doshi points out that it took nine months to detect that 1,300 people who received GlaxoSmithKline’s Pandemrix influenza vaccine after the 2009 ‘swine flu’ outbreak developed narcolepsy thought to be caused by the vaccine". But we've had more than nine months; we've had a year. And in that time we've vaccinated far more people with these vaccines than we did with Pandemrix in 2009, and Covid has gotten much more attention that the 2009 swine flu epidemic. Not to mention that Pandemrix is the exception to the rule; most vaccines don't follow a similar pattern. Add to that the fact that the Pandemrix narcolepsy problem occurred in just "1 per 18,400 vaccine doses" specifically in children, with adults experiencing narcolepsy at half that rate. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079217300011?via%3Dihub
The idea that the covid vaccines could end up earning as bad a record as Pandemrix, let alone that they could have a worse record, does not seem plausible to me. I think the risks posed by the vaccines are more than outweighed by the benefits.
You also mentioned the idea of vaccinating a relatively narrow part of the population ("those with conditions like diabetes, heart disease and stroke") so as to reserve vaccine supplies for people in poor countries. But that sounds like an issue to take up with the politicians who decide where to allocate vaccines, not something to determine your personal choice to get vaccinated. As I understand it, your own personal choice to refuse vaccination will not result in your dose being sent to a poor country somewhere. These vaccines expire if not used, so if an individual dose at your local pharmacy goes unused, it will likely be thrown out and not benefit anyone.
What do you think?
EDIT: Re-reading your earlier comments, it seems possible that you actually have been vaccinated already. You only mentioned reluctance to vaccinate your child. And for the record, Covid is very age-dependent. Children (except perhaps the youngest children) are much more resistant to covid than adults. That's a legitimate factor to consider.
I am actually one of those people who chose not to get vaccinated. I imagine people will vilify me for this on this channel, which is unsettling. However I"m speaking out at I think it is important to bridge divides. I've seen families spit up over this issues and it's heartbreaking. Thankfully my community here in the real world is supportive and understanding, even though many choose different to me. I will quietly slip away if I get flack for my choice on this channel as I am not interested in fighting, only deepening mutual understanding and tolerance. I feel that humanity has to find a middle ground here and really examine, numbers, statistics and facts (not just the ones in the news but the raw data from source. We are very lucky here in the UK, the NHS does excellent data collection and makes it freely available. We have now dropped all restrictions, the data simply doesn't support continuing down that route. I realise this Is different for different countries and everyone will have to navigate their own choices for their own circumstances.
I know a broad range of people of differing ages and backgrounds and they all accept my decision and know I do my upmost to keep the people around me safe. I feel very blessed to not be judged and to be allowed to do what I feel is best for my own body.
Having been a very sickly over-medicated child, since I was 19 I have been taking very good care of my respiratory and immune healthy using natural means. I know my immune system very well. I was pretty much 99% sure I would not get a problem from Covid, and also pretty sure that I had been exposed to it from several of my students that had it at the start of 2020. I noticed people who were flying then were coming down with really horrid flu type symptoms that took way too long to shake and I found my self having to take a lot of anti viral herbs in order to keep my own immune system up.
Once the vaccines were launched we were given a leafelt which explained that the vaccines do not stop transmission, it also listed all the different ailments that predispose people to having a more severe response to covid infection. And recommended that those people get vaccinated. I am very grateful that I do not have any of those conditions. I was also extremely glad the vaccine exists for people who do. I was, and remain, unconvinced that the proper research had been done to test both efficacy and safety in the longer term. So for me personally, the cost - benefit did not add up. My decision might change as time goes on and more data is released, particularly interested in the raw data from vaccine munfacturers being release but that does not seem forthcoming, which I find rather suspicious. Where we are we have free test kits to use whenever we need, so I could be sure I was safe if I needed to visit an elder relative (mostly I stayed at home).
Last November I had covid, not sure if it was Omicron or the previous but it was mild, I worked all the way through (on Zoom) but had two days in bed (reading and working on the computer). I had been taking vitamin D3/K2; Zinc; Vit C and a couple of other things. I felt fine and still do feel fine. This is the common experience of every single one of my friends and family members (both faxed and untaxed). I now have a immunity pass, which the UK recognises similar to a vaccine passport. In fact the immunity one gets from natural infection is more broad, it's not just antibodies but a whole host of other markers.
I feel there are other ways of managing this illness and the focus on the vaccine is actually taking the focus of early treatment protocols which have saved many lives in countries were they are allowed.
To date I only know one person personally who has died of covid. I live in London in the UK which has the highest rates of covid and one of the highest rates of vaccination. It was interesting to see how vaccinated people got covid just as frequently as unvaxed. I would be wary of assuming that vaccination prevents covid, it definitely doesn't. It also doesn't prevent infection. Although they do make infection easier to cope with for people who are vulnerable sure (at least for the first three months according to an A and E doctor who spoke to the Mayor of London recently). Subsequent waves of covid have been milder and milder, nothing like the original infection pre April 2020. I know so many, many, many people who have recovered completely and many children who had covid with no symptoms whatsoever. Yes their parents caught it from them sometimes, but again, many many people recovered just fine. Most people in London are now kind of done with it because they've had it and fought it off. I do know of 3 people with long covid, one from the booster vaccine (this is what his doctors said, not my supposition).
These are my observations but I also follow the ONS data, and the wonderful Dr John Campbell on YouTube who distills the emerging science around covid and the vaccine very well. He is not antivax.
Whether vaccinated or not, it was those ailments (mentioned in the NHS the leaflet) that really determined how difficult it was for the person to recover. Also vitamin D levels seem to play an important role. See Dr Campbell's site for the data on this and many other issues. He is a great unbiased source. We have obviously have a lot to learn and discover about this illness, I do hope it will lead to better treatment for all people with post viral problems and the metabolic syndrome type ailments such as diabetes and heart disease. I also hope that we can be less polarised and realise that some people have different ways of managing their health, not better or worse, just different. By the way I've had all my other vaccines and am not opposed to them as such.
I certainly don't intend to vilify you. Like you, I hope to bridge divides. If we disagree about certain things, we can still be respectful about it.
I'm sorry to hear you were a sickly over-medicated child. I imagine that was a difficult experience for you.
I'm curious to hear what standards you would set on "proper research" for Covid vaccines. Who would you trust to do this research? How many people should they study? How long should the study continue? etc.
"The scientists begin by reminding of the Tamiflu scandal, where the Roche corporation withheld clinical trial data for over half a decade – long after many countries had spent billions stockpiling the antiviral. The released clinical trial data showed that Tamiflu did not reduce the risk of complications, hospital admissions, or death."
I had never heard of a Tamiflu scandal before. The idea that something similar might happen with Covid vaccines is most troubling.
You say that early treatment protocols have saved lives. Which early treatment protocols do you find most trustworthy and effective?
I'm not opposed to treatment. I just happen to think that the vaccines have saved lives too.
I'm glad to hear that your case of Covid was mild. I agree that it likely gave you robust protection against re-infection. I'm glad you have an immunity pass.
It follows the medical records of about 1.2 million Israelis, and it finds that vaccinated people are much less likely to get covid and much less likely to die. This appears to be at odds with your personal perspective in London, in which the "vaccinated people got covid just as frequently as unvaxed.", leading you to conclude that the vaccine "definitely doesn't" prevent Covid. How can we make sense of these contradictory observations? Do you suspect that the Israeli study was fraudulent? Or perhaps there's some difference between Israel and London? Something to do with weather or population density or dietary norms or any number of things which might affect the course of a pandemic? Do you have some other theory, perhaps?
I'm grateful for your open mind... Yeah the Tamiflu was bad... another instance of drugs companies putting profits before people, so many of these sadly. Anyway... that study you mention was in April 15th 2021 the picture is different now. For thoughts on how Isreal is faring now have a look at this article https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delt
This is the problem with rushing out a vaccine too soon, a problem that is ok for the elders and metabolically challenged, but highly likely NOT ok for perfectly healthy children. Time will tell how they will fare, we literally don't know. It's interesting to see how these vaccinations are not behaving like normal vaccines (you know, the ones we get once or twice over a lifetime, not over a year). I imagine the covid vaccination will end up like the flu jab given to the vulnerable and those who want it upon the onset of the winter flu season. I feel on reflection, that is what we should have done all along. Giving it to perfectly healthy people and mandating it seems absolutely ludicrous to me.
As for early treatment well vitamin D levels need to be optimum there is A LOT of evidence for this. It's plainly obvious to anyone who who's anything about the immune system and natural health. Plus Ivermectin, which has been vilified as a horse medicine in the mainstream media but is actually a well used, very safe drug there is a veterinary version and a human version (as with many drugs). I wouldn't want to take it personally (my friends who are chicken farmers say it kills all the soil bacteria) but if there was a deadly strain of covid in my vaccinate I definitely would have some of the human version on hand for the first five days of infection (which is when you have to get on top of the immune response to covid - it's the immune response that's the problem not covid itself so much). I am not a doctor and I research yoga not medicine!! However you can find some good information here: https://youtu.be/zy7c_FHiEac This guy is a nurse educator and very unbiased lots of his followers are medically trained (doctors virologists, epidemiologists and doctors). BBC sadly is biased as is all mainstream media. He's also quite funny in this video. :-) He has video on Vitamin D too. He goes through the actual data and interprets it. Sadly this does not happen on mainstream media. I wonder why? Don't you???
I like your personal story related to defining punk. It secretly seems like the Advisor asking for support. So I want to talk about that in context of your current theme.
A while back I saw a screen shot of a tweet or tumblr or some other thing I have never engaged in that said “Punk is whatever makes you happy that irritates people who are used to having total control”
Then not long after I saw another that said “In an age of performative cruelty, kindness is punk as fuck. be punk as fuck.”
Both of these have stuck with me and I think they are incredibly relevant and related. I have always felt that those who really embrace the punk inside themselves (myself included) are people who have been betrayed on some level and no longer believe they will ever receive genuine help from anybody again. Any help that is received is tainted by some ulterior motive. Some wear this as a badge of honor with labels like “self sufficient” & “independent”. Part of the punk rock prism is how this distrust of fill in the blank passes through one facet of the prism and emerges from the other facets in many forms that all have a similar theme. It’s the product of needing to rebel against the forces that betrayed you and the need to help others do the same so that you can have a space to keep doing it.
The darkness of betrayal filters through the punk rock prism in the form of The “DIO” (Do It Ourselves) ethos of the punk community. It simultaneously pisses people off who want to control everything and decide what is “good” AND is inherently kind despite how some perceive the severe appearance on the exterior. What some people see as angry people making shitty music and being lazy street rats who should just take a bath and get a real job I see as:
It doesnt matter if you can sing
if you can play guitar
if the song is only 30 seconds long
if the recording is shit
if only 5 people show up (and they are the other band)
if your clothes are dirty and you smell like a dumpster bagel
Make the band anyway. coordinate the shitty punk rock barbeque anyway. Scream in your garage anyway. What matters is the punk community is going to show up to your crappy show at a crappy backyard or a crappy bar with a crappy mic and crappy PA. Because they need to bask in the light that started as betrayal but has been cleansed by passing through the prism.
For those who are punks not making music, what matters is accessibility to express yourself in whatever way you are physically capable. Not about doing something just because the product might be good enough to sell. For those who are punks who don’t create anything what matters is helping others like you. Carry an amp. Burn some veggie burgers on a thing thats not a grill. volunteer at food not bombs. smile at a hobo. Make it obvious who you are and why you are and that you can’t be bought because you transcend that definition of “good”
I think in the space of the antivax Q anon situation… what we are dealing with are people who always were closeted punks. They were deterred from being themselves because someone who had control over them said they couldn’t. Now they are finding out that life is way too short to let anyone have that level of control over them. But because of their inexperience, they found the fool’s prism. Their betrayal is not filtering through the punk prism. It is filtered through the facebook indoctrination prism so it comes out as the opposite of the punk ethos. Now everything matters and everything must be “good” and everything must have monetary value or other ulterior motive. And so they try to align their lives with that definition of what matters and is good and is valuable. we see their DIO ethos... its truck parades running busses off the road. Its destroying vaccine supplies. its storming the capital.
I have patience for these people because they are just people and I am a people. We are more the same than we are different. The upsetting part only comes when I think about how many there are.
When this concept of “Karens” started and the videos of antivaxxer’s acting out in public started I was more sad than angry. And I probably owe Amanda some royalties for this but I found myself routinely commenting on such things suggesting these people are crazy or should be locked up or deserve to die with a simple parody quote “Please excuse her for the day. It’s just the way indoctrination makes her.”
I've spent a lot of time telling myself "I HAVE TO DO THE THING RIGHT NOW". I don't think Anyone has Ever told me explicitly to NOT do the thing right now. I almost cried when I read it, and I don't even know if it was possible for me before. I always lived under this "sword of Damocles" where I was emotionally or mentally abdicating responsibilities, which made me this horrible, negligent, lazy, unaccountable person. But I see that this was kind of wrong-headed, and really just not serving me. It was also creating such persistent anxiety that was always there and never went away. Those were Good words, Amanda, thank you for telling us not to do the thing.
Dear Amanda, thank you for writing about this... Reading about the struggles Lost is going through with their mom hit me hard. I'm listening to my own mom succumbing to beliefs that are so different from mine and it's hard to just take a step back and breathe deeply. It hurts to hear that my health issues (recovering from covid+pneumonia and not out of the woods yet) are actually caused by my decision to get vaccinated against an imaginary virus. What helps me not to get too frustrated about it is just remembering some things about her. That the winter has been long here and it's been too long since she was able to spend her days getting busy in the garden. That she doesn't have many people around her to talk to and she must feel very lonely at times. That she's probably too scared to accept the possibility of her daughter suffering from something nobody could protect her from...
I'm sorry if I don't make much sense. I'm exhausted. Physically, mentally, emotionally. I'm used to making myself invisible and always trying hard to understand where other people are coming from with their beliefs. It's a crucial coping mechanism I had since childhood. It's still working quite good but I feel bloody drained...
I hope we all can survive this madness without losing our loved ones over these differences. Love to you all and take care of your sanity as much as you can 💗
I'm sorry to hear that your mom is not able to support you in the ways you would like through your recovery from illness. Worse yet that she blames your choice to be vaccinated for your illness. It is difficult to feel that people you would otherwise rely on to be on your team are unexpectedly against you AND at the same time to hold compassion in your heart for them and their struggles (even as those struggles pit them against you). I hope you have others in your life who are able to be beacons of support and understanding while you navigate both the physical and emotional challenges that have been hurled at you simultaneously.
I can relate very much to the concept of "always trying hard to understand where other people are coming from" and minimizing your own needs in the process. It absolutely is exhausting holding yourself together for the sake of everyone else. I know I'm just a stranger on the internet, but if it helps, I give you permission to fall apart, to wallow in your own needs without thinking about the other side for a minute, and to rest. You deserve to be wholly yourself, to feel your feelings completely, and not to be smaller or less visible for convenience.
Thank you for your warm, kind and thoughtful words, they help a lot and make me smile (which I definitely need to do more often). I do have some support from my close friends. It is hard but necessary for me to accept that I shouldn't expect that from my family.
I'm no longer trying to hold myself together. It's impossible. My health is bad, my partner has pneumonia now and needs help, my country is a mess and everybody is crazy (myself included). At this point I'm happy I manage to remember to pay rent and get food. Survival mode. No huge expectations of myself or anybody else. Somehow it works...
I'm looking forward to a moment when it will be okay to fall apart and be present with all my feelings. Not today though. Maybe this weekend...
You wrote you can relate to the trying to understand everybody else - what do you do to relieve the exhaustion? Do you have any tips on how to keep a healthy balance? Or is it just ridiculous to try to keep balance in these insane times?
I wish you a lot of rest, luck, strong health and close people who can take care of you with the same compassion as you do for others.
Thank you again for your words, I'm sending back sincere love and hugs 💗
I definitely don't have the healthy balance thing down at all. I'm not really sure how you find it or if you truly can in these times. I also struggle with depression which has spiked (for obvious reasons) and taken away a lot of my creative outlets like writing and playing music.
One thing that does keep me sane is growing things. Where I am it's too early to really be putting plants in the ground, but I am planning and planning what will be grown and where and how. I get some measure of pleasure and respite from that. It also makes me look forward to something positive (and hopefully delicious), which I need right now.
Maybe you also have something like that in your life?
That's an amazing insight! Growing things! I surround myself with plants at home as I don't have a garden. And I love taking care of my animals, I especially enjoy spending time with my bearded dragon when she falls asleep on my chest. Soon enough Spring will come here and I can once again go and collect herbs. Focusing on those plans really brings a lot of peace and hope, thank you 🙏
I never fully realized that I defined parts of myself around the rejection of others. I obviously couldn’t ask about the see-proof paint, not because it’s a bad idea, but because that would make me someone who engages with see-proof paint, a child.
As a college kid, it also does me good to hear a new rebuttal against pervasive mythos that now is the key moment to choose everything. I had a strong start with the fact that my path still has so much time to wind and mature, but nobody added the flip side, that this is a comparatively fraught time for trying to write a sweeping assertion of intent.
So much appreciation for your posts. I'm loving them. As a psychologist and zen student, so many of your "solutions" resonate with me. I TEACH validation but have spend two years (plus) learning over and over to crack my heart open to the experience of people who do not see the world as I do. I have been teaching this for 20 years, and keep learning it deeper in myself. Your writing is helping:) I want to use your stories in my teaching--can I have permission if I credit you? Maybe I could project a lovely picture of you with a quote and the place you make the most money for your music:) Just teaching therapists who are on the same journey that I am on, and not about the money.
I have posted something similar Sarah. This term anti-vaxxer has been used to spread hate, has been used to cause division. If people genuinely want to love and connect with those who have a different opinion, then please don't use this term!
I think if you decide to stand in the box where you don't trust vaccinations, then you are, by very definition, anti-vaccine. To other people who are also anti-vaccine, that isn't a derogatory term, they see it as a badge of pride.. so really it's all about where you're standing.
I think Amanda's response was VERY spot-on and just broke down the uncomfortable truth that there are seriously-heavy-topics people are digging their heels in on all sides of the spectrum these days, not just about vaccines, and how to navigate keeping a loving relationship with a family member or friend by acknowledging exactly what you said - how we all are FEELING (rather than beliefs about a thing).
Perhaps try reading it again, but this time with an open heart, because she acknowledged that everyone is having feelings about all the things and to actually focus on that to bridge conversation.
I like the phrase “vaccine hesitant” to describe those who have misgivings about the vaccines. It acknowledges their beliefs without being judgemental. I’ve used it a few times with folks who were not vaccinated; instead of creating negativity and division, it enabled me to open up the conversation and ask questions. As a result of such conversations, at least one person close to me who was vaccine hesitant has now been vaccinated.
There's a doctor on Twitter (Kimberly Manning) who often says "what's holding you back?" and models such amazing openess and acceptance.
I’m so sorry. I hate what my culture has done to yours. One of the things I can’t forgive in my anti-vaxxer mom is how delusional she has been about the impact of COVID on First Nations.
I could never understand what you are going through. You have every right to be angry. Your feelings are just as valid as those around you. I firmly believe that hatred is something that should be let go. We find it hard to love those who hurt us. And that is the natural response. It is our survival instincts that make us feel this way.
If you cannot find it in yourself to love, find it in yourself to forgive. I could never love my abuser. But I did forgive him. I didn’t do it because he deserved forgiveness. I did it because I deserved to live without the hatred in my heart always weighing me down. You deserve to be happy.
I live down the road from the Alabama-Coushata Tribe. I stop at the gas station all the time. They have posted everywhere that masks are required even at gas pumps. I get so so angry when people disrespect their signs and don’t wear a mask. I’m so sorry your people are still being disrespected. I could ever understand how that feels. You are an incredibly strong person.
dear elio….
i’m glad the post made you cry, because that means it made you feel. what is happening with this pandemic is deeply unfair. it a pandemic of the poorer among us, the indigenous among us, the lesser educated. it is fucked. it is making clearer the previous horrors; the system is not working. i know. people are not listening and indigenous people (here in new zealand as well) are carrying an extra load.
i wish i could hug you.
you said I find it incredibly hard to be compassionate and empathetic…”
i do, too. it really is incredibly hard. there are times i want to throttle people. there are times i want to scream. there are times i want to shut off. there are times i want to just walk away and let it burn. it is incredibly hard to keep feeling compassion for someone especially when they are hurting your family, or lighting fire to your town. it is so, so hard.
it is because it is hard that we must do it anyway. being able to have (boundaried, strong) compassion for all those around us - especially the difficult ones - is a master-level move in this life.
the more incredibly hard it is to do, the more rewarding (for both sides) it is when it happens.
it takes a bit of a leap of faith.
i believe in you.
you can love someone that is killing you because you can love anyone you want.
xx
amanda
thanks. i needed to write it. ♥️
It feels as if your skin is getting thinner and thinner, and more and more light is shining through... * basking *
soft front, strong back. xxxx
wild heart
Now that’s what i need on a tee or badge: soft front, strong back, wild heart
Hmmm…that’s got my creative juices flowing. Thanks lovelies xox
I should give credit - that's Brene Brown's saying, published in one of her books!
iirc ‘comparison is the thief of joy’ is another Brené quote isn’t it? Readers feel free to correct me :) my brain is far from neurotypical…
I think so - it certainly sounds like things she says!
This is a little bit of a tangent, but since you brought up the "<XX> isn't punk rock" thing, it has always struck me that trying to tell others what is or isn't punk is the most "un-punk" thing of all. (And yes, I realize the irony in my statement)
LEVELS.
social responsibility is punk af and I believe that is what the vaccine offers.
I'm very much with Trapped. One moment, I want to kiss a stranger, the next I want to never leave the flat again. Love & patience & strength & joy to all of you!
just remember how totally normal it is. i've been the same for the past few years, just feeling like a manic animal in a cage, with my brain pin-balling in every direction every 60 seconds. it is what it is. acceptance is hard in coming but when it does, fuck, it's a real relief.
Yes, but. Sorry I have a but: I feel like the really hard part is that even if you accept, oh okay, we have a new virus and need to be careful until we figure out how to deal with it, fine ... after a few months comes the realization, oh, it's not as simple as we may have thought, but they're already developing vaccines, so we need to hold out just a few more months, fine ... then it's yay, I can get vaxxed soon, but we first need to let all the more vulnerable people get theirs, fine ... yay, I got my first jab, I feel such relief, maybe now the end is finally in sight ... oh what's that, not enough people get theirs, and now some people start protesting in the streets, converging from all over the country and probably spreading the Covid amongst themselves, carrying it back home to wherever they're from ... well, fuck me, this thing lasts and lasts and lasts - we could have ended it if all countries had gone for a short, hard lockdown, and then again if all countries had vax rates high enough for herd immunity, but as it stands, this shit is gonna stick with us for how much longer .... and that's where acceptance and patience has been worn thin for me. I know there's nothing else to do but keep on being careful, wary, patient. But boy, it hasn't gotten easier, it has gotten exhausting.
Alas acceptance never gets any easier. I wish I could lie and say that it does…but as a rule it’s always utterly, utterly exhausting, confusing and numbing. Everything feeling worn thin and barely functional. Whilst the meat computer (my therapist’s term for my fibro brain) grapples with the fluctuating incoming sensory data.
One of the things we have going for us in these covid times is that this is one of those very rare occasions when we have a global shared reality. Thankfully Empathy is a powerful thing, and we at least have the means by which to convey some of that empathy.
This made me think of my new favorite saying that I heard this week: And the science goes on. I agree, the constant changing is exhausting. I'm also thankful that as the information has accumulated and new things have come along, there have been people who would make changes. Making changes can be tough...even if we feel like it's repeated whiplash. I keep trying to remind myself it's evidence of us learning more about what we are dealing with (no commentary on why that might be).
It is exhausting! Right down to the bones. So, I think we need acceptance in a larger sense -- beyond the current twists and turns of the virus, and encompassing all the unknowns. It's not easy but it makes me feel less insane.
I miss karaoke. I miss jam nights. I miss airplane rides to other places.
Because of chronic illness and such, I'm not going to bars or nightclubs or restaurants or going be in an airplane, even with a mask and a booster, for probably years.
The idea of Zoom karaoke sounds intriguing. No one has ever thought of inviting me to do Zoom anything, so maybe I should break my pessimistic loner introvert habits (which prepared me for this pandemic really well tbh) and ask, anyone want to do Zoom karaoke sometime?
Same boat here. *fistbump*
I'm accepting that in order to have certain services in my life that I need, I have to adjust to "I will sometimes spend time in enclosed but ventilated spaces, with masks, with LFTs taken, with people who are out and about more than I am."
The proviso currently is that they're vaccinated as heavily as I am, but I recognise that the system will likely soon titrate vaccine availability to just people like me who are clinically extremely vulnerable. I'll still have layers of protection, but fewer layers, and there's a limit to the normality I can expect other people to refuse when both local and national governments are easing restrictions (however political, rather than scientific, those decisions may be). (All the same, I wish they would refuse a bit more of it. It's the loss of consensus on reality and what it means that I miss most deeply, I think.)
Anyway, I would SO be up for Zoom karaoke, though I have never done karaoke before and do not guarantee the quality of what comes out of my mouth! Are there sites where people can just sign up for this and send a bunch of invites out? I've been doing Zoom art/crafts groups a lot with autistic peer-run things and it's been great.
Yes, please. Chronic Pain Survivor, here. I want to maintain some level of "zoominess" as things go forward. I have appreciated not driving so much. Can do it, and need to rest afterwards.
Rest. Wait. Thank you for this.
I put a big job change on hold at the beginning of the pandemic to help my company and coworkers through it. Now I am utterly exhausted. It's time to leave. It's time to rest and regain strength so in time I can get to the things that have been waiting.
"Emotional truth" and validating core emotions - this is so helpful and I wish I had understood this better when I was raising my children and married to an emotionally violent man. This applies to so many situations and for me, now, will help in communicating with my dearly loved nearly 92 y/o father, who has dementia. Thank you for this.
you're so welcome. it's a really liberating thing to understand. and you can ALWAYS find that core emotion to latch onto - it's in there SOMEWHERE - even if there rest is a ball of anger, narcissism, abuse, whatever, getting in the way.
My dad doesn't have dementia, but this is the whole thing I've been trying to do for a year since my mom (his partner of 60 years) died suddenly. Just trying to listen to what he is feeling but isn't saying. When he is complaining about the basketball refs or the football game or whatever I just try to listen to the pain or frustration or sadness he is finding a way to express. It helps a lot. It's so strange how our relationship changed overnight and I'm still finding my footing in it.
Such a journey, isn't it, how our roles change with our elders who raised us. Your dad is fortunate to have you. 💜
Thank you! I needed the reminder to rest and heal. Expansion points are my new focus. I need them. I am cracking and snapping. It is completely unsustainable. I feel broken in so many ways. I am failing as a parent but trying rally back into it as my kids deserve more than I am giving. Expansion points will allow me the grace I need. THANK YOU!!
YOU ARE WELCOME. nothing heals without time, patience, slowing-downing. it's so frustrating to accept, but there's no other goddamn way. the seed needs dark soil and slow time, dark soil and slow time. you can't just pry that shit open.
Perhaps it might help to remember the vaccine scientist who said “we are building the plane as we lift off”? To me that seems very dangerous, and I would rather my child was on a plane that was properly built and tested prior to their flight. I think that’s reasonable, yet so many people think it’s not. This troubles me greatly. We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine, we cannot. It’s fine for adults to make their own choices according to need of course.
Dear Julia.
I appreciate that. I think that when it comes to looking at the cost/benefit of saving lives, a little risk is worth the price. Science has always worked like this. We put a lot of medicines in our modies that have been proven in study after study to work 99% of the time. That means there may be a 1% of the time these medecines don't work, or may have adverse effects. But we decide to take the risk. Right now, with 900,000 dead and counting in the states, I'd rather get on the plane with the mitigated risk. It's a good metaphor, isn't it. Every time you get on a LITERAL plane, you're also taking a calculated risk. Is it 100% certain that your plane isn't gonna crash? Nope. You might crash. Planes are not guaranteed to work. But, statistically, you're pretty safe.
And running with this metaphor, I also don't see the logic coming from folks who will not take a jab in the arm, but will gladly get on a airplane to fly somewhere. To me: it's the same kind of trust fall (excuse the word choice).
When you get on a plane: do you know how it works? Do you understand exactly how that plane was built, and how the physics of it function? Or ... do you take a trust fall and assume that the airline, the pilot, and the government have pretty much done their jobs to make sure that everybody on that plane is pretty safe? I'd say the latter. I wonder what the difference is.
XXX A
Dear Amanda,
Thanks for your reply. I still need to remind myself of the physics each time I fly! However, I don't fly that much since cutting down my carbon footprint.
It's a long read but if you truly wish to understand the vaccine hesitant then I highly recommend Needle Points by Norman Doige, it is fully referenced and absolutely fascinating.Norman Doige is pro-vaccination and vaccinated himself. I hope this piece will open up the debate, bring in some actual science and real world data and bridge the divides that are having such devastating effects on families, communities and nations. The section on younger people is really worth a read for anyone who has a child.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-one
She censors every comment from people who have a background in science and are anti-vaccine. Almost every one. She deleted the comments I just made. Check out my substack. Amanda Palmer is a really, really bad person. If you look at my substack you'll understand why.
bellaisabeast.com and bellaisabeast.substack.com. Amanda knows the vaccines aren't safe. I imagine she and Neil have been paid for their support.
Thank you for bringing this perspective, Julia. It ensures this community is representative and not an echo chamber. When I think of the expression about building the plane as we lift off I dont think of one modern plane that isnt finished. I think of the Wright Brother's plane that was just wings with no seat or even a cabin to keep the pilot from falling out. I'd never get in one. And very few people did. But I'm glad someone did. And that those who believed in flight kept working to make planes better and accessible to more people despite the failures, injuries and deaths. I think of open cockpit planes from WWI. I'd still never get in one (especially for their intended task) but I am SO glad that many brave souls did. And still more people dedicated their lives to making flight more accessible to more people. The evolution of planes would not have happened if children did not witness the risks and benefits of flight and decide to learn physics and invest in the future of flight. Your child is smart. your child is observant. What you instruct your child to do and what you expose them to is unique to your life and I am not here to tell you you are wrong. What I hope also happens is that your child is also given the benefit of growing with well rounded (difficult) lessons, not just actions.
"I am the mom and I say we are not getting on this plane because it is not safe"
-- Why isn't it safe?
"Because look at it. it has no seats, belts, doors or walls to keep us falling out"
--OH. Well why is everybody else getting on the plane? don't they know it's unsafe?
This is where the difficult lesson comes in. Because one day your child wont be a child. they will be an adult. suddenly it will be fine for them to make their own choice. The catch is, their decision making about getting on planes will be largely informed by that time we didn't get on the plane with no doors even though we saw a lot of other people doing it.
I fully understand that not everyone wants to be part of the experiment. But everyone should be given the tools to understand the importance of the experiment and the inherent neutrality of science. Facts and data and graphs are neither good nor bad. It is only how the facts and data and graphs are wielded that cause us to interpret them as good or bad.
Wishing the best to you and your family.
Thanks for this, I appreciate your comments and welcoming of my differing perspective. You are right we are the experiment. And as you know if you have some understanding of science, every good experiment need a control group. If everyone takes the vaccine we have no control group, then we have no way of knowing it's effectiveness or not. I wish the best to you and your family too.
Julia, if you look at the links that I have linked to and my sub stack articles, you'll find great videos concerning micro technology, put out by La Quinta Columna. You will also find links to brave people in New Zealand who have been fighting to inform others of micro technology and the Pfizer vials in New Zealand as well. there's a reason Amanda went out of her way to stick her neck out for Chrissy Teigen, and keeps ignoring me, and has never shared any of my work. Because they're all part of the same club that makes money off our suffering.
I think the "building the plane as we lift off" metaphor is missing some context.
In ordinary circumstances, you can just decide not to fly on airplanes, and that's ok. Nothing really terrible is going to happen if you decide not to fly on an airplane.
But if, say, you're on an island with an erupting volcano and the lava is pouring down the slopes and people are dying in large numbers, and if the only way to escape is to get on this plane we just finished building, that's a different story.
I understand that you feel concerned about the vaccines, and I sympathize. Personally, I'm much more worried about the well-known long term effects of Covid than the hypothetical long-term effects of vaccines. https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects
I happen to have a neighbor who caught Covid before vaccines were available. Over a year later, she's still short of breath. 😟
But I affirm that you have value, whether you get vaccinated or not.
great point, identifying the 'business as usual' baseline is key, this issue comes up in climate change conversations too, incidentally.
on a similar note, this is not the first time we have developed a vaccine even though this one is new. we know a lot about vaccines. a closer analogy might be we're in a plane that's trying a slightly new navigation system.
it seems relevant to find out whether a person is concerned about the whole idea of vaccines in general, or just this vaccine, because it would change the conversation. similarly, do they think covid is real or not, for example, would they accept lockdown in lieu of getting a vaccine to protect others, recognizing there is a pandemic--if not, it would change the conversation, depending whether there is more or less common ground.
Hi Henry, thanks for your respectful comment. I feel for your neighbour. I understand your own concern. I'm not antivax. I feel it is an important tool in our battle against covid-19. Many people should have it. I feel it would be better to prioritise those who have pre existing illness that predisposes them to get covid-19 badly, those with conditions like diabetes, heart disease and stroke. Then there might be more vaccine left for people in other less affluent countries who would also greatly benefit. Mine is a nuanced position that takes a long essay to to explain. Thankfully Norman Doige has done a good job. See here if you are interested in bridging the divide and learning from beyond the echo chamber https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/needle-points-vaccinations-chapter-one
Julia,
Thank you for this essay. It is perhaps the most thoughtful essay about Covid vaccines that I have ever read, and it makes a far stronger case for vaccine hesitancy than the usual fare I hear from my relatives (who, for instance, have claimed that Bill Gates aims to murder 90% of the human race, etc. etc.).
Considering the evidence from this essay, I feel I must switch my position on mandates. The covid vaccines should not be mandated. Likewise doctors should be allowed to share their honest opinions of the vaccines (and also lockdowns etc.) without fear of being fired for it, except perhaps in really extreme cases. The censorship imposed by Big Tech is also troubling and ought to be greatly reduced if not eliminated. The FDA should be reformed so it no longer takes money from drug companies, and we need to do something about "salary bribes", which is what I call it when a government official goes easy on industry in return for a cushy position in that same industry once the official resigns from government work. We also need a thorough investigation into the lab-leak hypothesis, gain-of-fucntion research etc.. (Matt Ridley had already convinced me of that one. https://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/suppressing-the-lab-leak-theory/ )
With all that out of the way, though, there remains the question of whether or not you should get vaccinated. Of course I don't know your individual case, your medical history, the prevalence of Covid where you live, etc., but I'd like to share a few thoughts.
The essay says that "while the vaccines don’t always stop the spread, they do protect the vaccinated from getting severe disease and death for a number of months". I think protection from severe disease and death is a very nice thing to have, even if it's temporary. And while it's true that the initial studies were too small to detect deaths (running at 30,000 people per study), later studies were much larger. See for instance this study, which looked at medical records from 1.2 million people (600,000 vaccinated people and 600,000 unvaccinated people) in Israel: https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/24/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-real-world-israel-study/
You mentioned a concern about long-term side effects, saying "We do not know the long term effects of this vaccine, we cannot."
It's true that these vaccines have only been available for about a year. But in the absence of longer-term data, we have to make an educated guess about the long-term risks, and I would argue that those risks are very small.
Vaccines are not taken daily like some other medicines, so there's no chance of the medicine slowly building up over time. Vaccines as a rule are only injected a few times, and they're designed to be eliminated by the body. Eliminating the vaccine is how the body learns to fight the actual disease, after all.
Even this essay, for all its valid skepticism of official narratives, can't find a single example of a vaccine side-effects that waited a year to emerge. The closest example is here: "Doshi points out that it took nine months to detect that 1,300 people who received GlaxoSmithKline’s Pandemrix influenza vaccine after the 2009 ‘swine flu’ outbreak developed narcolepsy thought to be caused by the vaccine". But we've had more than nine months; we've had a year. And in that time we've vaccinated far more people with these vaccines than we did with Pandemrix in 2009, and Covid has gotten much more attention that the 2009 swine flu epidemic. Not to mention that Pandemrix is the exception to the rule; most vaccines don't follow a similar pattern. Add to that the fact that the Pandemrix narcolepsy problem occurred in just "1 per 18,400 vaccine doses" specifically in children, with adults experiencing narcolepsy at half that rate. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1087079217300011?via%3Dihub
The idea that the covid vaccines could end up earning as bad a record as Pandemrix, let alone that they could have a worse record, does not seem plausible to me. I think the risks posed by the vaccines are more than outweighed by the benefits.
You also mentioned the idea of vaccinating a relatively narrow part of the population ("those with conditions like diabetes, heart disease and stroke") so as to reserve vaccine supplies for people in poor countries. But that sounds like an issue to take up with the politicians who decide where to allocate vaccines, not something to determine your personal choice to get vaccinated. As I understand it, your own personal choice to refuse vaccination will not result in your dose being sent to a poor country somewhere. These vaccines expire if not used, so if an individual dose at your local pharmacy goes unused, it will likely be thrown out and not benefit anyone.
What do you think?
EDIT: Re-reading your earlier comments, it seems possible that you actually have been vaccinated already. You only mentioned reluctance to vaccinate your child. And for the record, Covid is very age-dependent. Children (except perhaps the youngest children) are much more resistant to covid than adults. That's a legitimate factor to consider.
Hi there Henry,
I am actually one of those people who chose not to get vaccinated. I imagine people will vilify me for this on this channel, which is unsettling. However I"m speaking out at I think it is important to bridge divides. I've seen families spit up over this issues and it's heartbreaking. Thankfully my community here in the real world is supportive and understanding, even though many choose different to me. I will quietly slip away if I get flack for my choice on this channel as I am not interested in fighting, only deepening mutual understanding and tolerance. I feel that humanity has to find a middle ground here and really examine, numbers, statistics and facts (not just the ones in the news but the raw data from source. We are very lucky here in the UK, the NHS does excellent data collection and makes it freely available. We have now dropped all restrictions, the data simply doesn't support continuing down that route. I realise this Is different for different countries and everyone will have to navigate their own choices for their own circumstances.
I know a broad range of people of differing ages and backgrounds and they all accept my decision and know I do my upmost to keep the people around me safe. I feel very blessed to not be judged and to be allowed to do what I feel is best for my own body.
Having been a very sickly over-medicated child, since I was 19 I have been taking very good care of my respiratory and immune healthy using natural means. I know my immune system very well. I was pretty much 99% sure I would not get a problem from Covid, and also pretty sure that I had been exposed to it from several of my students that had it at the start of 2020. I noticed people who were flying then were coming down with really horrid flu type symptoms that took way too long to shake and I found my self having to take a lot of anti viral herbs in order to keep my own immune system up.
Once the vaccines were launched we were given a leafelt which explained that the vaccines do not stop transmission, it also listed all the different ailments that predispose people to having a more severe response to covid infection. And recommended that those people get vaccinated. I am very grateful that I do not have any of those conditions. I was also extremely glad the vaccine exists for people who do. I was, and remain, unconvinced that the proper research had been done to test both efficacy and safety in the longer term. So for me personally, the cost - benefit did not add up. My decision might change as time goes on and more data is released, particularly interested in the raw data from vaccine munfacturers being release but that does not seem forthcoming, which I find rather suspicious. Where we are we have free test kits to use whenever we need, so I could be sure I was safe if I needed to visit an elder relative (mostly I stayed at home).
Last November I had covid, not sure if it was Omicron or the previous but it was mild, I worked all the way through (on Zoom) but had two days in bed (reading and working on the computer). I had been taking vitamin D3/K2; Zinc; Vit C and a couple of other things. I felt fine and still do feel fine. This is the common experience of every single one of my friends and family members (both faxed and untaxed). I now have a immunity pass, which the UK recognises similar to a vaccine passport. In fact the immunity one gets from natural infection is more broad, it's not just antibodies but a whole host of other markers.
I feel there are other ways of managing this illness and the focus on the vaccine is actually taking the focus of early treatment protocols which have saved many lives in countries were they are allowed.
To date I only know one person personally who has died of covid. I live in London in the UK which has the highest rates of covid and one of the highest rates of vaccination. It was interesting to see how vaccinated people got covid just as frequently as unvaxed. I would be wary of assuming that vaccination prevents covid, it definitely doesn't. It also doesn't prevent infection. Although they do make infection easier to cope with for people who are vulnerable sure (at least for the first three months according to an A and E doctor who spoke to the Mayor of London recently). Subsequent waves of covid have been milder and milder, nothing like the original infection pre April 2020. I know so many, many, many people who have recovered completely and many children who had covid with no symptoms whatsoever. Yes their parents caught it from them sometimes, but again, many many people recovered just fine. Most people in London are now kind of done with it because they've had it and fought it off. I do know of 3 people with long covid, one from the booster vaccine (this is what his doctors said, not my supposition).
These are my observations but I also follow the ONS data, and the wonderful Dr John Campbell on YouTube who distills the emerging science around covid and the vaccine very well. He is not antivax.
Whether vaccinated or not, it was those ailments (mentioned in the NHS the leaflet) that really determined how difficult it was for the person to recover. Also vitamin D levels seem to play an important role. See Dr Campbell's site for the data on this and many other issues. He is a great unbiased source. We have obviously have a lot to learn and discover about this illness, I do hope it will lead to better treatment for all people with post viral problems and the metabolic syndrome type ailments such as diabetes and heart disease. I also hope that we can be less polarised and realise that some people have different ways of managing their health, not better or worse, just different. By the way I've had all my other vaccines and am not opposed to them as such.
Julia,
I certainly don't intend to vilify you. Like you, I hope to bridge divides. If we disagree about certain things, we can still be respectful about it.
I'm sorry to hear you were a sickly over-medicated child. I imagine that was a difficult experience for you.
I'm curious to hear what standards you would set on "proper research" for Covid vaccines. Who would you trust to do this research? How many people should they study? How long should the study continue? etc.
I agree that the absence of publicly-available raw data is a legitimate concern. In fact looking it up brought me to this memorable tidbit: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20220121/Call-for-pharmaceutical-companies-to-release-COVID-19-vaccine-data.aspx
"The scientists begin by reminding of the Tamiflu scandal, where the Roche corporation withheld clinical trial data for over half a decade – long after many countries had spent billions stockpiling the antiviral. The released clinical trial data showed that Tamiflu did not reduce the risk of complications, hospital admissions, or death."
I had never heard of a Tamiflu scandal before. The idea that something similar might happen with Covid vaccines is most troubling.
You say that early treatment protocols have saved lives. Which early treatment protocols do you find most trustworthy and effective?
I'm not opposed to treatment. I just happen to think that the vaccines have saved lives too.
I'm glad to hear that your case of Covid was mild. I agree that it likely gave you robust protection against re-infection. I'm glad you have an immunity pass.
Back on the question of research, what do you think of this study: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2101765?query=featured_home
It follows the medical records of about 1.2 million Israelis, and it finds that vaccinated people are much less likely to get covid and much less likely to die. This appears to be at odds with your personal perspective in London, in which the "vaccinated people got covid just as frequently as unvaxed.", leading you to conclude that the vaccine "definitely doesn't" prevent Covid. How can we make sense of these contradictory observations? Do you suspect that the Israeli study was fraudulent? Or perhaps there's some difference between Israel and London? Something to do with weather or population density or dietary norms or any number of things which might affect the course of a pandemic? Do you have some other theory, perhaps?
Hi Henry,
I'm grateful for your open mind... Yeah the Tamiflu was bad... another instance of drugs companies putting profits before people, so many of these sadly. Anyway... that study you mention was in April 15th 2021 the picture is different now. For thoughts on how Isreal is faring now have a look at this article https://www.science.org/content/article/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delt
This is the problem with rushing out a vaccine too soon, a problem that is ok for the elders and metabolically challenged, but highly likely NOT ok for perfectly healthy children. Time will tell how they will fare, we literally don't know. It's interesting to see how these vaccinations are not behaving like normal vaccines (you know, the ones we get once or twice over a lifetime, not over a year). I imagine the covid vaccination will end up like the flu jab given to the vulnerable and those who want it upon the onset of the winter flu season. I feel on reflection, that is what we should have done all along. Giving it to perfectly healthy people and mandating it seems absolutely ludicrous to me.
As for early treatment well vitamin D levels need to be optimum there is A LOT of evidence for this. It's plainly obvious to anyone who who's anything about the immune system and natural health. Plus Ivermectin, which has been vilified as a horse medicine in the mainstream media but is actually a well used, very safe drug there is a veterinary version and a human version (as with many drugs). I wouldn't want to take it personally (my friends who are chicken farmers say it kills all the soil bacteria) but if there was a deadly strain of covid in my vaccinate I definitely would have some of the human version on hand for the first five days of infection (which is when you have to get on top of the immune response to covid - it's the immune response that's the problem not covid itself so much). I am not a doctor and I research yoga not medicine!! However you can find some good information here: https://youtu.be/zy7c_FHiEac This guy is a nurse educator and very unbiased lots of his followers are medically trained (doctors virologists, epidemiologists and doctors). BBC sadly is biased as is all mainstream media. He's also quite funny in this video. :-) He has video on Vitamin D too. He goes through the actual data and interprets it. Sadly this does not happen on mainstream media. I wonder why? Don't you???
I like your personal story related to defining punk. It secretly seems like the Advisor asking for support. So I want to talk about that in context of your current theme.
A while back I saw a screen shot of a tweet or tumblr or some other thing I have never engaged in that said “Punk is whatever makes you happy that irritates people who are used to having total control”
Then not long after I saw another that said “In an age of performative cruelty, kindness is punk as fuck. be punk as fuck.”
Both of these have stuck with me and I think they are incredibly relevant and related. I have always felt that those who really embrace the punk inside themselves (myself included) are people who have been betrayed on some level and no longer believe they will ever receive genuine help from anybody again. Any help that is received is tainted by some ulterior motive. Some wear this as a badge of honor with labels like “self sufficient” & “independent”. Part of the punk rock prism is how this distrust of fill in the blank passes through one facet of the prism and emerges from the other facets in many forms that all have a similar theme. It’s the product of needing to rebel against the forces that betrayed you and the need to help others do the same so that you can have a space to keep doing it.
The darkness of betrayal filters through the punk rock prism in the form of The “DIO” (Do It Ourselves) ethos of the punk community. It simultaneously pisses people off who want to control everything and decide what is “good” AND is inherently kind despite how some perceive the severe appearance on the exterior. What some people see as angry people making shitty music and being lazy street rats who should just take a bath and get a real job I see as:
It doesnt matter if you can sing
if you can play guitar
if the song is only 30 seconds long
if the recording is shit
if only 5 people show up (and they are the other band)
if your clothes are dirty and you smell like a dumpster bagel
Make the band anyway. coordinate the shitty punk rock barbeque anyway. Scream in your garage anyway. What matters is the punk community is going to show up to your crappy show at a crappy backyard or a crappy bar with a crappy mic and crappy PA. Because they need to bask in the light that started as betrayal but has been cleansed by passing through the prism.
For those who are punks not making music, what matters is accessibility to express yourself in whatever way you are physically capable. Not about doing something just because the product might be good enough to sell. For those who are punks who don’t create anything what matters is helping others like you. Carry an amp. Burn some veggie burgers on a thing thats not a grill. volunteer at food not bombs. smile at a hobo. Make it obvious who you are and why you are and that you can’t be bought because you transcend that definition of “good”
I think in the space of the antivax Q anon situation… what we are dealing with are people who always were closeted punks. They were deterred from being themselves because someone who had control over them said they couldn’t. Now they are finding out that life is way too short to let anyone have that level of control over them. But because of their inexperience, they found the fool’s prism. Their betrayal is not filtering through the punk prism. It is filtered through the facebook indoctrination prism so it comes out as the opposite of the punk ethos. Now everything matters and everything must be “good” and everything must have monetary value or other ulterior motive. And so they try to align their lives with that definition of what matters and is good and is valuable. we see their DIO ethos... its truck parades running busses off the road. Its destroying vaccine supplies. its storming the capital.
I have patience for these people because they are just people and I am a people. We are more the same than we are different. The upsetting part only comes when I think about how many there are.
When this concept of “Karens” started and the videos of antivaxxer’s acting out in public started I was more sad than angry. And I probably owe Amanda some royalties for this but I found myself routinely commenting on such things suggesting these people are crazy or should be locked up or deserve to die with a simple parody quote “Please excuse her for the day. It’s just the way indoctrination makes her.”
I like your definition of Punk
I've spent a lot of time telling myself "I HAVE TO DO THE THING RIGHT NOW". I don't think Anyone has Ever told me explicitly to NOT do the thing right now. I almost cried when I read it, and I don't even know if it was possible for me before. I always lived under this "sword of Damocles" where I was emotionally or mentally abdicating responsibilities, which made me this horrible, negligent, lazy, unaccountable person. But I see that this was kind of wrong-headed, and really just not serving me. It was also creating such persistent anxiety that was always there and never went away. Those were Good words, Amanda, thank you for telling us not to do the thing.
Dear Amanda, thank you for writing about this... Reading about the struggles Lost is going through with their mom hit me hard. I'm listening to my own mom succumbing to beliefs that are so different from mine and it's hard to just take a step back and breathe deeply. It hurts to hear that my health issues (recovering from covid+pneumonia and not out of the woods yet) are actually caused by my decision to get vaccinated against an imaginary virus. What helps me not to get too frustrated about it is just remembering some things about her. That the winter has been long here and it's been too long since she was able to spend her days getting busy in the garden. That she doesn't have many people around her to talk to and she must feel very lonely at times. That she's probably too scared to accept the possibility of her daughter suffering from something nobody could protect her from...
I'm sorry if I don't make much sense. I'm exhausted. Physically, mentally, emotionally. I'm used to making myself invisible and always trying hard to understand where other people are coming from with their beliefs. It's a crucial coping mechanism I had since childhood. It's still working quite good but I feel bloody drained...
I hope we all can survive this madness without losing our loved ones over these differences. Love to you all and take care of your sanity as much as you can 💗
I'm sorry to hear that your mom is not able to support you in the ways you would like through your recovery from illness. Worse yet that she blames your choice to be vaccinated for your illness. It is difficult to feel that people you would otherwise rely on to be on your team are unexpectedly against you AND at the same time to hold compassion in your heart for them and their struggles (even as those struggles pit them against you). I hope you have others in your life who are able to be beacons of support and understanding while you navigate both the physical and emotional challenges that have been hurled at you simultaneously.
I can relate very much to the concept of "always trying hard to understand where other people are coming from" and minimizing your own needs in the process. It absolutely is exhausting holding yourself together for the sake of everyone else. I know I'm just a stranger on the internet, but if it helps, I give you permission to fall apart, to wallow in your own needs without thinking about the other side for a minute, and to rest. You deserve to be wholly yourself, to feel your feelings completely, and not to be smaller or less visible for convenience.
Sending you love and healing vibes. ❤
Dear J.
Thank you for your warm, kind and thoughtful words, they help a lot and make me smile (which I definitely need to do more often). I do have some support from my close friends. It is hard but necessary for me to accept that I shouldn't expect that from my family.
I'm no longer trying to hold myself together. It's impossible. My health is bad, my partner has pneumonia now and needs help, my country is a mess and everybody is crazy (myself included). At this point I'm happy I manage to remember to pay rent and get food. Survival mode. No huge expectations of myself or anybody else. Somehow it works...
I'm looking forward to a moment when it will be okay to fall apart and be present with all my feelings. Not today though. Maybe this weekend...
You wrote you can relate to the trying to understand everybody else - what do you do to relieve the exhaustion? Do you have any tips on how to keep a healthy balance? Or is it just ridiculous to try to keep balance in these insane times?
I wish you a lot of rest, luck, strong health and close people who can take care of you with the same compassion as you do for others.
Thank you again for your words, I'm sending back sincere love and hugs 💗
I definitely don't have the healthy balance thing down at all. I'm not really sure how you find it or if you truly can in these times. I also struggle with depression which has spiked (for obvious reasons) and taken away a lot of my creative outlets like writing and playing music.
One thing that does keep me sane is growing things. Where I am it's too early to really be putting plants in the ground, but I am planning and planning what will be grown and where and how. I get some measure of pleasure and respite from that. It also makes me look forward to something positive (and hopefully delicious), which I need right now.
Maybe you also have something like that in your life?
That's an amazing insight! Growing things! I surround myself with plants at home as I don't have a garden. And I love taking care of my animals, I especially enjoy spending time with my bearded dragon when she falls asleep on my chest. Soon enough Spring will come here and I can once again go and collect herbs. Focusing on those plans really brings a lot of peace and hope, thank you 🙏
I never fully realized that I defined parts of myself around the rejection of others. I obviously couldn’t ask about the see-proof paint, not because it’s a bad idea, but because that would make me someone who engages with see-proof paint, a child.
As a college kid, it also does me good to hear a new rebuttal against pervasive mythos that now is the key moment to choose everything. I had a strong start with the fact that my path still has so much time to wind and mature, but nobody added the flip side, that this is a comparatively fraught time for trying to write a sweeping assertion of intent.
So much appreciation for your posts. I'm loving them. As a psychologist and zen student, so many of your "solutions" resonate with me. I TEACH validation but have spend two years (plus) learning over and over to crack my heart open to the experience of people who do not see the world as I do. I have been teaching this for 20 years, and keep learning it deeper in myself. Your writing is helping:) I want to use your stories in my teaching--can I have permission if I credit you? Maybe I could project a lovely picture of you with a quote and the place you make the most money for your music:) Just teaching therapists who are on the same journey that I am on, and not about the money.
of course. 🙏🏼